Gentleman thieves, loveable pirates and sexy tricksters – a FantasyCon panel

Posted: September 19, 2014 in writing
Tags: , , , , , , ,

If you’re writing from inside the head of someone who’s just been robbed, they’re not going to think ‘I’ve been delightfully subverted’. – Frances Hardinge

This panel’s description featured the most amusing misprint of the FantasyCon 2014 program, promising us a discussion that would cover ‘sex tricksters’. For better or for worse, the panel swiftly moved away from that dubious-sounding subject, into a fun discussion of the place of roguish characters in fantasy fiction.

One of the many disreputable figures up for discussion

This panel featured:

  • David Tallerman – author of various novels, including a trilogy about a thief
  • Joanne Harris – writer of both literary and fantasy fiction
  • Frances Hardinge – children’s author, wearer of a rather dapper hat
  • Kim Lakin-Smith – author of fantastical fiction, particularly interested in gender issues and mixing up biology
  • Libby McGugan – fantasy writer with a taste for science
  • James Barclay – fantasy author, chairman of the British Fantasy Society, has a certain charmingly roguish air himself – James was chairing the panel

Favourite roguish characters

Favourite examples was a good starting point for the panel, and one that grounded the discussion in familiar stories.

Joanne mentioned the Pied Piper, and how he appealed to her because he was a villain but one who had been wronged, the sort of character who emerges once black and white moral divisions have been used up. For her the appeal of rogues goes back to childhood and fairy tales.

David talked about his own character, Easie Damasco, who he wrote because he wanted to deliberately get away from treating thieves as sympathetic people. After all, in reality they’re criminals preying on the innocent. It was a bit of a cheeky answer to this particular question, but I’m currently reading the first Easie Damasco book and I have to say that Easie’s becoming one of my favourite rogues, so I’ll let him off this once.

Frances discussed the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride. She pointed out that, much as we love Wesley, he’s presumably been killing lots of people in his pirate role.

Kim listed Pan, Puck and Robin Hood as among her favourites – mythic characters who intrigued her.

Libby picked Crowley from Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman’s Good Omens, a character whose defining quality is that he is struggling with being bad.

Motivation and complexity

James asked if it was the motivation and complexity of rogues that made them appeal, leading to an interesting discussion about where that appeal comes from.

Reasons for their appeal that the panel mentioned included:

  • The fantasy of freedom, letting us safely imagine doing what these people do (Frances)
  • Respect for people breaking the system (Libby)
  • Catharsis (Joanne)
  • Realistic decision making (David)
  • We all do wrong sometimes, and it’s enjoyable to see this in others (David)
  • Being intrigued by the bad boy/girl (Kim)
  • The character showing a broader social context (Frances)
  • Corrupt systems making law-breaking acceptable (Joanne)
  • They’re more fun to write (Libby – and I suspect that’s how most of the panellists got to this point)
  • Characters determining their own moral code (Joanne)
  • Making bad girls/boys safe (Kim)
  • The distance of time making people more appealing – we love Caribbean pirates not Somali ones (Frances – and with my historian hat on this comparison made me smile – ah history, how you warp our perspective)
  • The fun of dressing up – rogues often have great outfits (Frances)

How to make them appeal

James asked a couple of questions near the end that covered how to make such dubious characters appeal – do they need the capacity for redemption, and is this appeal partly down to sleight of hand?

The general consensus seemed to be that the possibility of redemption was needed. As Libby pointed out, we need something to identify with in a character. David made the point that there’s not even tragedy without the possibility of redemption, and it’s hard to read anything without hope in it.

There was also agreement on there being some authorial trickery involved. As James pointed out, the cleverness of the rogues themselves distracts you. But as Joanne pointed out, there’s a darker side to this, as we rely on taking away the victimhood of their victims so that readers don’t think about those consequences.

Last thoughts

One of the last notes I made was another one about historical context – shock horror, the history grad paid attention to the history bits. According to Frances, it has been argued that the appeal of roguish characters is a particularly English thing, a cult of the criminal having grown up here in the 16th and 17th centuries, celebrating the innovation and courage of such people.

I don’t know enough about other cultures to make a comparison, but certainly the appeal of dangerous rogues to the English rings true. In the middle ages we were renowned across Europe as a violent and disreputable nation, and some people took pride in that. The fame of figures such as Dick Turpin, Robin Hood and even the Krays reflects a long held romanticisation of armed robbers and violent crime.

On that charming note I’ll leave you with one last question – who are your favourite rogues and why? Leave a comment, share your love of bad boys and girls who kick against the system.

  1. everwalker says:

    I do enjoy Locke Lamora, at least in the first book, because he’s clever and charming.

    • That book got mentions in several panels over the weekend – really must get round to it. And cleverness seems to be the appeal of many rogues – the way they outwit the people in charge.

  2. Han Solo, Captain Jack Sparrow, and of course, Robin Hood. I like wisecracking, charismatic rogues who still have some good in them deep down.

  3. Nicholas Valiarde and company from ‘The Death of the Necromancer’ were a good crew.

    I think a defining characteristic of the charismatic rogue is that they tend to go after rich people — they’re not mugging working-class folk. Recently I watched a British series about long cons…I can’t remember the name, it was something simple. But all the stories were about grifting techniques used against greedy upper-class types. The typical charismatic rogue gives us a story of getting back at those higher in the caste system than us — of exploiting their greed or bias or insecurity in order to take them down a notch. That’s an appealing hero to anyone who feels like they’re in the underclass.

  4. Is that show Hustle, by any chance? Great show, with some excellent characters. The audience tend to root for Mickey Bricks and co because they are very sympathetic, yet a top team of rogues. The first episode in the first season is important, just because it lays out Mickey’s code of honour, and by extension, the team’s. It’s slick, and works at its best when the team have their backs most to the wall, you wonder how they’re going to pull of their con this week.

    • Yes, Hustle! Thanks! I enjoyed it a lot, exactly because they do have that code and they do hit only ‘acceptable targets’…and if those targets turn out to be not as acceptable, they have qualms. That’s a big part of the charming rogue, I think — having a code and qualms.

      • Hustle’s great fun, watching the cleverness at play. I think that’s what the best rogues bring together for me – they’re intelligent, and they apply it in unexpected ways for causes that are… well, maybe not always good, but usually not bad.

  5. As I remember it I fluffed that first question and James gave me a different one and at THAT point I talked about Damasco, because otherwise that WOULD have been really cheeky 🙂 (And then about ten minutes later I remembered Fantomex from Grant Morrison’s X-Men run, who’s beyond a doubt the coolest rogue character ever.) But other than that, a brilliant write-up! It’s great to see a panel analyzed in so much detail, especially when it happens to be one that you were on.

    • Ah, Fantomex. Like so much of Grant Morrison’s X-men run, he was too awesome for the rest of Marvel to do him justice. Can’t believe I forgot that you mentioned him.

      And thanks for the kind words. I pretty much just made notes to help me concentrate, and now they’re turning into a handy way to fill blog space.

  6. […] a thief living in a classic Eurpoean-influenced fantasy setting. As Tallerman made clear in the FantasyCon panel on rogues, Easie isn’t meant to be a nice character. He’s just as selfish as any real thief, […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s